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Wednesday, September 15, 2004

Fathers4justice

Am I alone in thinking that the demonstrations by Fathers4justice show an incredible lack of responsible judgement? Would you really want a child to be in the care of a man who climbs onto a ledge of Buckingham Palace or throws powder in the House of Commons at times like this?

I am also worried about a man who can have four children by three women. Anybody told him about birth control? Consenting adults can have as many sexual relationships as they like in my view but children give you a very special responsibility.

These guys seem to have forgotten that.

Apparently the Batman guy is too busy being a Fathers 4 Justice activist to spend time with his youngest daughter!

Regarding birth control, consider that many pregnancies are "mistakes" and that if the only pregnancies were planned pregnancies, humans would probably be extinct. Not a good outcome in my opinion.

Contact between fathers and their children is not about the father's (or may I say mothers')promiscuity, but about share responsibilities of both parents to the child(ren). Clive's comments are a clear indication of why the laws and their application are so stupid. But we have narrow minded MPs like Clive making such laws!

Clive raises a good point when he uses the comment, "incredible lack of good judgement". I find it incredible that MPs lack good judgement!!!!!

"I am also worried about a man who can have four children by three women. Anybody told him about birth control?"
Politicians have no right to determine how many children we have, our number of sexual partners or whether we use contraception. This is not China, Clive, although I would not be surprised if Blairite control freakery led to the implementation of a "one child policy" - you already want to dictate out diets.

This man apparently wants access to his children. Why should the law deny him the ability to fulfill his responsibilities as a father? Why must he be judged by your morality?

Clive,

I'd much rather that children were in the care of people who care enough about them to go out and try to change the law and their lives, than people who, for example, would do this to their children:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2700427.stm

Regards

If you and other MPs paid more attention to this issue they wouldn't need to get up to these stunts.

Personally, I think a campaign of compulsory sterilization of all Neo Labour MPs would do wonders for the future of the human race!

I do know that the last thing single parents need is the pious cant and family planning moralising from the likes of Clive Soley MP!

Watch yerself mate. The Fathers' rights issue is bound to get bigger with or without Batman. And being a politician, you wouldn't want to back the wrong horse, would you Clive, I mean, judging from the comments so far.... or else you may wake up one morning and find that the BNP has stolen your seat.

I can not imagine how these guys must feel, being forcibly separated from their offspring. Having said that, there does need to be a mechanism in place that shelters a child from an unfit father.

They argue that their insane stunts demonstrate their strength of feeling. I am not going to argue that point. However, there must be other ways of pursuing their rights. Britain is a free and democratic country. They have rights and freedoms that allow them to demonstrate without endangering their own lives.

7 posts supporting the Father 4 Justice and one against.

I'll make it eight. And I expect none of us have links to F4J.

Was this the response you expected to your post?

Iraq casualties stats as at Sept 21st 2004:

Coalition dead: 1035
Coalition dead per Labour MP who voted for the war: 1035/247 = 4.2

Iraqi civilian dead (minimum estimate): 12,800
Iraqi civilian dead per Labour MP who voted for the war: 12,800/247 = 51.8

Data from:
http://icasualties.org/
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

I believe the recent actions of fathers for justice may have been immature, but I also believe these were actions of desperation. Would you rather them be dead beat dads? Being a father myself, I can understand where they're coming from. I too have gone through the court system and I can attest it is stacked against the father. Children really need their father. The criminal courts will attest to that. For every single mother, look who are committing crimes. Girls are consistently having sex at a much earlier age. Do your homework Mr. Soley; look at the statistics of what happens to girls and boys without their fathers. Look at what fathers do without their children.

I am a grandma who loves her grandchildren and they are being kept away from us by ther vindictive mother. My son has been going to court now for 18 months and every time the Judge makes a ruleing for my son to see his children she difies the order. Out of 9 orders she has defied 7 making a laughing stock out of the Law but the Judges do nothing. My daughter inlaw gets away with it evey time and we the Tax payer pay for her court apperences as she gets Legal Aid. Does anyone know how much stress this causes us as a family. To watch your son travel hundreds of miles thinking he is going to pick his children up for the Weekend and their Mother won't let them go. The only people that win here are the Lawyers. But as an MP What do you care, you make a stupid statment without looking into the reason why the Fathers4justice act the way they do. I know my son is at his wits end he has spent £38,000 in the courts and is no nearer than when it first started. You tell me MR high and mighty MP were is the Justice in all this

Iam a farther being prevented from seeing my children.The thing that your missing here Clive is. A true Farther will do anything for his children, and will contribute to the world in wich his children grow up in,by ensuring that he does the best he can for them.This is completely natural to a Man who cares for his offspring.It is NOT about yourself, its about the children.What about the childrens act? This law was put in place to give children a chance to say what THEY want, NOT what the Mother wants. MR Clive soley,After reading your shallow cry for reasurance that you feel alone. I can confirm that you are absolutely,or soon will be if your Wife gets fed up with all your Dribble!!! Where did all that education GO EH! If you want to ask a provocative question in order to clearly serve your severe lack of knowledge firstly "STOP" being such a PIOUS GIT. My question to you Clive is. DO YOU THINK POLITICIONS ARE RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO FARTHER CHILDREN? I Sincerely hope that you never have to endure this subject because you dont sound strong enough...............

Clive, one of my colleagues suggested that I looked at your site.
Your comments reflect your lack of knowledge regarding the breach of human rights for the half a million plus children denied contact with their absent parents in the UK. I suggest that you contact the two leading organisations fighting for the rights of children, Fathers 4 Justice and Families Need Fathers.

My case is typical my granddaughter is banned from seeing me a retired teacher not because I have committed a crime but because the Judge in her case refused to take any action against a mother who frequently moved address to frustrate contact orders and penal notices, always without either notifying my son and I or the court.

The government of which you are a member refuses to acknowledge Parental Alienation by parents who use psychological abuse to prevent their children seeing their absent parents, grandparents and extended families.

As a member of Fathers 4 Justice I feel that my frustrations and anger over this state of affairs has helped to raise the issues and if your party led by people like Margaret Hodge will not do anything I a Labour party supporter of forty years will like many others be voting Conservative in the General election.

My daughter in laws natural mother died recently. My d.i.l. had been adopted since birth. Greiving mother in laws husband, with no children, avowed to my d.i.l. and my two grandchildren off to Canada to live. With his financial help he helped my d.i.l through the court and procured, with the help of CAFCASS etc the whole family less my son. It was all a piece of cake for the Canadian. My son now sees his children twice per year.
The justice system is so flawed it is open to manipulators and criminals.

Having at this moment gone through the draconian legal system, I still feel like I am very unfairly treated. (and that is putting it mildly). I would like to see how you and the Blairs (Ego maniacs) would react if you were put in the same situation. Rare visits and no overnight stays to see your most prized possession. Wake up and get in the real world. Its LOVE which makes the world a better place and there is no stronger LOVE than a Dad has for his kids.

I think you should speak to the people concerned before making judgement! These are desperate acts by desperate people. They are trying to let the nation know what is happening and if the only way people will listen is by them taking drastic measures whilst dressed as their children's superheroes then good on them!! It has got people talking about it so it is working. From discussions maybe a change in the law will happen! Remember the sufferagetes??

This is an act of selfless courage. This man has better things to do than risking his life in a peacful gesture, crying for justice concerning the most important thing .... our own families . Our government has went way over their legal boundries and are decimating hundreds of thousands of families from England to America. Lets pray this is just a begining of the birth pangs of distress.

Clive, you are an idiot. You wouldn't be complaining about a bunch of raging gender feminists victim cult protesting their latest "outrage."

Fathers4Justice protests because they would not get any attention otherwise. They are heros and all men and fathers should thank them their "stunts."

I'm amazed that you guys in the UK keep elected ninnies like Clive.

I live in Seattle, the most misandrist city in the most misandrist state in the country. I, for one, am looking forward to Fathers4Justice making it to Seattle and engaging in some major protests here!

Iguana, stay tuned. F4J US is launching. We face almost the same destructive and biased courts here the USA. The problem here is that we have to fight the same battle in each and every state. F4J will make this a national issue.
Those that critisize these heros don't realize they have already tried every other avenue to see their children. Ask yourself this question...what are you willing to do if someone took your child?
Justice is Coming!

John

Clive,

Before you spout you mouth off in public you should get your facts correct first. Fact the supporters of F4J have gone down all the legal channels in the hopes of justice. The publicity stunts that F4J have brought to the media attention are the last resort to make the government take notice of much needed changes to the law. I personally split up with my wife in july 2003, she immediately denied me any contact with my son. After paying 1,000's of pounds to a solicitor i managed to get 2 hours contact every saturday with my son. This lasted for 4 weeks when she claimed he was becoming upset and wetting himself at school. I contacted both his head teacher and class teacher to find this not to be the case. In february i started legal proceedings through the court (giving her time to calm down and hopefully see reason) 15 months of driving 60 miles backwards and forewards to court my ex wife has managed to turn my son against me. I am now left with a court order stating i can write to my son 6 times a year and my ex wife to inform me in writing twice a year as to his welfare. There were no allegations against me of physical or mental abuse to my son, no reason at all as to why contact should be denied. My ex wife has lied numerous times during the court proceedings all of which could have been proved lies. To add insult to injury my former matrimonial home was worth £90,000 with £30,000 owing on the mortgage the house was awarded solely to her. I am left with thousands of pounds of debt that arose from the modernisation of the former matrimonial home. Before the marriage breakdown i had a very close relationship with my son. Maybe... Clive you can explain why it took 15 months through court giving my ex wife ample time to turn my son against me. 15 months when there was no allegations against me in any respect. At present i am under the doctor having been prescribed anti-depressants, the doctor has referred me to a pychiatric nurse to help cope with the fact of not having contact with my son. Maybe Clive you can suggest how i am to carry on normally thinking about my son everyday of the week and knowing i am going to miss his childhood. Just for the record as well i slept for 3 and a half years on the sofa before i moved out for fear of losing my son. If you are going to make allegations against fathers who are going to whatever extreme necessary to obtain contact to their children then you should make sure of your facts first.

kevin kerr

I really can't believe what i've read from Clive 'i'm SO in touch with the public' Soley!
Yes is the answer to your question. You are basically on your own with the questions you posed.
First of all, the guy you're talking about isn't even in F4J anymore. Even if he was, what gives you the right to make small-minded comments like you have?
My own father split up a home. He told his lover not to let her childrens father see his children. From that day he hasn't seen his two eldest children. His name is Ray Barry and his own website is www.megaphonedad.net. He is part of F4J.
I saw him climb on top of a church on the local news and realised it was the husband of my dads lover.
I got in touch with him and he's become a father figure to me. I don't have any contact with my own dad because of what he's done to Rays' life and family.
Ray's life has changed from being a totally family-orientated, religious man to someone who dresses up like Spider-man climbing onto buildings - why? FOR HIS KIDS YOU MORON!!!!
I'd have loved my father to love me that much that he'd so pubically fight for the right to see me.
What's the matter with you people who can't understand this? You live in a very differen't world to us don't you?
I support Ray in everything he does. I go with him when he has to go to court, i go round to his house all the time. He comes round to mine and i cook him tea. He's an fantasic warm and generous man and my husband and i love him to bits. All he wants in this world is to be there to support and love his children.
My father did this to him and i'm doing all i can to help him get back into his children's lives again.
Go to his web-site Clive and do a bit of research before you decide to post such a thoughtless comment on the web for the whole world to see.
F4J men, women and children are the best type of people. They actually stand up for what they believe in and they won't give up hope that the stupid laws of this country will change.
They're standing up for not only their children but for what is right.
You better get used to it Clive because F4J and their supporters won't ever go away.
I'm only 24 and if i can see why these people do the stunts they do then why can't you?
All the want to do is be a part of their children's lives. They want to help protect them like any other parent but they can't because the mother and courts won't let them. This in itself should be made agaisnt the law but if the law makers in this country are anything like you then it's no suprise we're in the mess that we are.
This isn't the 1940's anymore Clive things have changed since those days but the stupid laws haven't changed at the same pace the world has.
ELECT ME, I'LL SORT IT OUT!!
You should issue an apology.

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