lord of the blog

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Monday, August 20, 2007

A voice from the past!

The Future of this Blog

It has been five months since my last post so you would be entitled to think that I have ceased to exist in cyber space! In fact I have been thinking - yes, I know that's hard to believe but it's true!

I am now closer to deciding the future of this blog. I am hopeful that I will be able to create a Lord's of the blog' which is what some of you suggested to me a while back. I don't want to be too definitive right now but I am close to getting a structure that might work and hopeful of recruiting a number of Lords who will be able to make regular entries so that it no longer depends on just one person.

I have made the point a number of times that for politicians, especially MP's time is very precious and that makes regular individual blogging difficult if you are also to respond to comments.

Hopefully I will be able to indicate progress in the next month or two - so watch this space. (Even if it does seem like watching paint dry!)

Climate camp

Just to add to your entertainment I can report that about a dozen climate camp protesters turned up in my front garden tonight. They were in fancy dress -clowns etc - and having tea on the lawn (or my apology for a lawn).

I said that they were not taking climate change seriously enough. I know they feel strongly about the issue but there is a terrible arrogance in believing that you are the only group of people to take climate change seriously and to believe that you have the only answer.

There are 500,000 people working in the aviation industry in the UK and most of them also take climate change seriously and worry about their children's future. Like me they believe that we can overcome this problem without shutting down large sections of industry. Returning to a pre industrial society is neither necessary or desirable in confronting the problem.

I think most people want a planned reaction not a panic reaction. So my message to the climate camp activists is to join the real campaign which means listening to the views of other people as well as their own and finding ways to reduce carbon emissions without threatening jobs or prosperity and without hectoring. It is possible and just as we dealt with the ozone layer problem so also we can deal with this one even if it is much more challenging.

Dear Clive, I hope this finds you well. Please excuse this rushed note. More Lords *getting* blogging is great news.

Here is my contribution to any future discussions on immigration. It is a copy of today's posting by Coming Anarchy.com (in full, incase the link becomes broken in years to come).

Note the last paragraph. Don't you think UK should have same system? I reckon any UK party or PM introducing such a system would be very popular for a very long time. I am posting this here today in the hope that you will receive it before Conference. Here is the copy, entitled "An interesting Immigration System"

Some call the Swiss immigration system racist. Is it racist or is it smart? BBC described it as:

Switzerland has Europe’s toughest naturalisation laws. Foreigners must live for 12 years in a Swiss community before they can apply, and being born in Switzerland brings no right to citizenship. Under the current system, foreigners apply through their local town or village.

They appear before a citizenship committee and answer questions about their desire to be Swiss. After that, they must often be approved by the entire voting community, in a secret ballot, or a show of hands. This practice, the report says, is particularly likely to be distorted by racial discrimination.

While individual Swiss citizens can be racist, one cannot logically carry that over to the immigration system. In fact, it is rather a traditionally Swiss system in which locals turn out to vote on issues. In Switzerland, where individuals are far more involved in politics and political power is devolved, the charges leveled at the Swiss system seem unjustified. While the report, which comes from within Switzerland, calls for far reaching changes, it seems unclear as to why this is necessary. The net effect of the system is that groups like Muslims, Africans and Asians often have poor chances of attaining citizenship. Yet, no one has a right to citizenship in a foreign country. Indeed, national laws describe the eligibility of individuals for residence and work permits and conditions under which one would be eligible to apply for citizenship. Switzerland, like all other countries, reserves the right to deny any of the above. After all, Switzerland is the land of the Swiss and not of Albanians, Nigerians or Vietnamese.

It seems rather funny that as immigration becomes a larger issue and integration a larger problem in Europe, Switzerland would criticize itself for having a system that ensures those who are thought unable to integrate are not given citizenship. And let’s not forget, one does not need citizenship to obtain residence. This author has permanent residence in Germany and will never become a citizen but has almost all the rights of one. One should no exaggerate the importance of a passport. In short, whether the system is fair or not is a moot point. The Swiss have the final say on who is Swiss and in a time of mass immigration to Europe and the resulting integration problems, it indeed would seem that Switzerland has one of the most successful systems and the fairest to its own citizens.

http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/15/interesting-immigration-system/
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And here is a copy of some of the comments received:

Excellent post Chirol.
I recall seeing an article recently proclaiming Switzerland the new “heart of darkness in Europe.”

We will see who is the real “heart of darkness” when Switzerland enjoys continued stability in the future and other European nations grapple with uncontrolled immigration and chronic integration problems and the choices they make in reaction to these problems.
 Rommel on Sep 16th, 2007 at 12:51 am

Though, is there a means to appeal this process? I’ve never been to Switzerland but I can envision a number of likely scenarios in which a perfectly assimilated individual would be denied citizenship for no valid reason.
 Thomas on Sep 16th, 2007 at 9:11 am

I think ‘appealing’ would just be to reapply would it not? It’s not like failing your immigration test means they kick you out or anything, you still have residency. If one is disappointed with the decision (a rather light way of putting it) they could just try again couldn’t they?
 Peter Pan on Sep 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm

I think this is nonsense. I heard a report on a young Turkish woman living in Switzerland – born and raised, second generation immigrant, university degree, speaking perfect French, German (and English), and yet she had to apply for citizenship at her village of birth that she had not been to for 20-odd years. They rejected her. She applied 2, 3 times more, and they still rejected her. What right had these villagers to say whether or not this woman should have citizenship? To my mind, it is none of their business. Now she’s had to resort to putting up posters around the village asking people to “accept” her. Absurd.

Switzerland wants the benefits of immigration but it does not want to accept any of the costs.

There is also evidence of racism: people with dark skins are far less likely to be accepted for citizenship (by a secret ballot of strangers) than white-skinned people. And have you never heard of institutional racism?

The attitude that tells people that citizenship is possible but then lets people (secretly) disallow those they don’t like the LOOK of is mean and ugly.

Of course, you will never need to imagine yourself in that position, will you? And please don’t embarrass yourself by pretending that your sojourn in Germany is any equivalent.
 Jimm on Sep 17th, 2007 at 2:23 am

Jimm: As stated, there may indeed be racist individuals but that is not to say the system isn’t racist. It’s merely different and is not unlike most other Swiss processes in Switzerland which start at the village level. People still come to the main square in their town to vote with their hands for God’s sake. A little perspective is necessary.

Second of all, each country can decide what the requirements are for citizenship. Nobody anywhere has the right to foreign citizenship. Sorry.

And my Germany example was to illustrate that citizenship can be overrated. Residence and work permits are enough to do almost everythin but vote.
 Chirol on Sep 17th, 2007 at 7:36 am

Chirol: I have residence and work permits for China. They have to be renewed every year and are entirely dependent on my acquisition of legal, paid work. I have lived in China for nearly eight years and I’m married to a Chinese citizen. Sure, each country has its own right to set its own immigration policy, but some systems are too open to (potentially racist) abuse (Switzerland, for example) or are plagued with (arguably xenophobic) unnecessary restrictions on otherwise well-adapted, committed individuals (China, for example). I still can’t figure out why it’s so (relatively) easy for a rich foreign manager of a foreign company in China with a foreign spouse and foreign children and no kind of long-term commitment to China to get permanent residence while a humble teacher like me who has family commitments (through marriage, granted, but still real commitments) in this country and who has gone out of his way to adapt to the local customs, culture and language, and who is making a real contribution to China’s future (through education) is still living in year-by-year insecurity. I’m glad for you that you’ve got such a good thing going in Deutschland, especially since it seems so secure, but it seems to be too easy for you from your viewpoint to praise the Swiss system. There are many immigrants out there who found themselves caught out in the cold because of these more restrictive immigration systems. I won’t complain about my own situation, because I walked into it knowing and accepting what the deal would be, but Jimm’s example of the young Turkish woman is a perfect example of the precarity many people find themselves in thanks to overly restrictive immigration laws.

And yes, I love how Switzerland makes such a point of devolving as much power as possible to the local level, but somethings really should be taken care of at the state level.

But Europe’s problem is not really immigration. Europe’s problem is the persistence of racism.
 chriswaugh_bj on Sep 17th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

chriswaugh: Very real points, and its not limited to China. There are systematic issues such as this in many countries. It comes down to the real fact that immigration is wholly the jurisdiction of administrative bodies with opaque standards that are not subject to judicial review. I’m based in Japan, where the government has vaguely said it wants to increase the number of “good foreigners,” but we know little as to what this means.
 Curzon on Sep 17th, 2007 at 2:48 pm

Chris: I agree that racism is a big part of the problem in Europe but you have to remember that Europe’s problem isn’t all that unusual. In fact, we in the US, Canada and Australia forget far too often that our open immigrant-friendly societies are the exception and not the rule.

In addition, you must not confuse being able to live and work in a country and receiving citizenship. Someone who has permanent residence is not missing out on much. And again, there is NO right to citizenship.

However, on a side note, within the EU, foreign but fellow EU citizens are allowed to vote in local elections if they’ve lived somewhere for more than 6 months. So a Frenchman or Estonian could live here in Stuttgart and vote in certain local elections for example.

Also, with regard to Germany, as I said before, my example was aimed at showing that citizenship is overrated, permanent residence or a continuing residence/work permit is almost as good. I too had to go back yearly and renew mine showing my bank account, insurance and other documents.

And lastly, in response to Jimm, you make a point that individuals may be ill suited to the task of deciding on someone’s citizenship however, who would better know the person than the locals he or she lives among? In addition, you could take a counter example of the UK’s open door policy which has allowed far too many foreigners to flood the country and remain unassimilated. If I were a UK citizen, I would be outraged at having no say at all.
 Chirol on Sep 17th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

What right had these villagers to say whether or not this woman should have citizenship?

What right? Hmm, let’s see here… oh yeah, that right: it’s their country! That’s like saying if I hired a person to live in my house and keep it clean for a number of months and then decided to kick him out, that he somehow has a right to live there. He doesn’t; it’s my house and I decide who lives there and who doesn’t. Same goes for countries. It’s their country, and it is they who have the final say on who lives there and who doesn’t.
 Arcane on Sep 20th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Vietnamese Passport » Blog Archive » Intercountry Adoption Vietnam

[...] Interesting Immigration System , Nigerians or Vietnamese. It seems rather funny that as immigration becomes a larger issue… the importance of a passport. In short, whether the system is fair or not is a moot point. The Swiss have [...]
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Vietnam Immigration » Blog Archive » pajamadeen.com

[...] Interesting Immigration System , Nigerians or Vietnamese. It seems rather funny that as immigration becomes a larger issue…Some call the Swiss immigration system racist. Is it racist or is it smart? BBC described it as: Switzerland has Europe s toughest naturalisation laws. Foreigners must live for 12 years… individual Swiss citizens can be racist, one cannot logically carry that over to the immigration… the final say on who is Swiss and in a time of mass immigration to Europe and the resulting [...]
Pingback on Sep 21st, 2007 at 10:51 pm   

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